...and it is up to us to promote a new direction. otherwise we'll be in the same situation we were in a thousand years ago with the last crusades. we can't resort to that level here in the beginning.
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
kampfhund |
Re: America, Britain and Israel's future | ||
|
...and it is up to us to promote a new direction. otherwise we'll be in the same situation we were in a thousand years ago with the last crusades. we can't resort to that level here in the beginning.
|
|||
Beerio |
Re: America, Britain and Israel's future | ||
|
I would agree with you if I didn't know my history K. Those who don't know their history are bound to repeat it. History shows that the longer you wait the more force is needed to stop the situation. If people had of taken Hitler seriously millions wouldn't have died. Have you ever read Mien Kampf? Hitler wrote it LONG before he came into power. It puts down in detail what he planned to do. He wrote it then he did it and millions died because they kept saying, "O he wont go any further. He isn't evil. Ok so he went further but that is it no more I am sure. Ok so he went even further but he signed a treaty so that is it...OK so he broke the treaty but I'm sure he is done now..."
He was only done when he was dead AND STILL his evil is alive in Germany and other countries. I like you Kampfhund and enjoy debating with you and I know I will never change your mind about the things we debate but you will see I'm right one day. |
|||
Beerio |
Re: America, Britain and Israel's future | ||
|
|
|||
kampfhund |
Re: America, Britain and Israel's future | ||
|
someone inspired me along time ago to use that name.
you might be mis-reading my contentions to invade countries as some sort of pacifism. all i'm for here in this particular issue is a different approach to opposing ideologies than what is tried, tried again in history, and failed. all the empires from the Assyrians to the British couldn't get everybody to agree on their way of thinking, and it is preposterous that we would expect that we could do it to. that was the whole point of the UN - to correct the last mistakes made by the Nazis in state homogeny. Marx wrote his philosophy a long time before the russian revolution, and yet in the end the stalemate of communism vs democracy ended with the weaker idea fading away, without nuclear war. we've already proven with Iraq that we obviously have the werewithal to invade a country and take out it's mad leader. yes, we can roll in and do the same to Iran. Or Syria. Or Palestine. but why stop there? North Korea is wagging their dog too with their missile program that could conceivably hit most areas in the US. they're closer a threat to us than Iran this moment. or China, with it's atrocious human rights problems. or anybody. occasionally the US flexes its military muscle and rolls in and does that. but what you don't see is the calamities diplomacy solves every day. would i lay down my life to ensure the US does not become the opposite of what it stands for? yes. gladly. the idea of 'dangerous thought' is an old one. anybody's philosophy, religion, manifesto, whatever, is dangerous to somebody. i have great compassion for all the people who died 9/11, and their families. i think it was the right thing to do to invade Afghanistan. we still need to hunt al-qaeda down, and i wouldnt blink if we shot first and asked questions later. i question the wisdom of invading Iraq and the rest of our middle eastern agenda. we've turned this into a potential world war, not various factions of militant muslims. they have been there for a long time, it's not as though they just rolled out of the cabbage patch yesterday. we've been dealing with modern terrorists big time since the 70's. most groups were not associated with each other, other than the fact they read the koran. but, yes, they will be now. it seems as though our difficulties of handling factions and small groups have forced us to piss off everyone unilaterally, so soon we will have a broad front of anti-US sentiment to fight. so you're right, we are heading to world war. because we are turning it into that, instead of systematically dealing with these groups one at a time, id'ing them, and policing and cracking down on them. i think we did get a wake up call on 9/11, but we need to get that cup of morning coffee, calm down, and just deal with it and not run around like the proverbial chicken. yes, if we don't deal with it, we'd be forced to all know how to read Islam in a couple of decades, and overrun and forced back into our borders, with a majority Muslim-led world. currently, they are the fastest growing faith. we need, however, to deal with co-existing, not extermination. yes, the central muslim faith has a holy warrior basis to it. it does not deal well with infidels. neither does most other religions, but eventually everyone has to deal with the real world and adapt their systems to co-exist. we cannot come in and crush this faith. obviously we will be perceived as foreign infidel invaders, and whoever was on the fence before, will surely be on the militant's side then. the US after ww2 has always been on the forefront of world politics. everyone knows we can clobber most of the planet into dust. we have to make most people understand that we still have the wisdom to wield this responsibility. the US needs to stop targeting countries. it needs to stop saying 'the axis of evil' and other trite phrases. that would piss me off too, if some jackass in another country said that about my country. israel has it's own problem to deal with. we've got ours. right now, its a lie to say they're the same. al-qaeda does not equal hezbollah. they may all read the same religious book, but they have different agendas. theres nothing wrong about helping, though. just don't lie to the public and say it's the same fight. it's not. there also a perception out there that Europe is 'weak-willed' or lacking in the killing gusto that americans have. most people in the US cannot get into another country by driving for a few hours. they can. they have been attempting co-existing for a lot longer than we have. we have the luxury of being a virtual island away from the rest of the world, and swooping down on the problems of the world is our usual M.O. don't give them crap about not rushing into things - they're the ones that had to rebuild after 2 world wars. yes, we need to take the lead and stamp out evil people in the world. but until they invent a smart bullet or bomb that can only target bad guys who are trying to kill someone, caution needs to be had before we force militant muslims into a corner, they band together, and declare war on the world. there is too high of a cost there, and right now, we're not in a position to win. there will be more Abu Gharibs, more Guatanamo Bays, more pictures of innocents dead, and we won't be just fighting off militant Muslims. we'll give justification to a lot more horrors, and might find ourselves on the receiving end of a few first world countries' arsenals. |
|||
Beerio |
Re: America, Britain and Israel's future | ||
|
Well Kampf there really isn't anything new to say to all that. I think I made it pretty clear that I think you are wrong and we are just covering old ground. I could restate points like co-existing with someone who is trying to kill you is not only useless but down right foolish or make another point about how Europe had to rebuild after two world wars because they started two world wars and America was forced into it despite not wanting any part of it...but never mind. I'll end this with just this:
We will have our answers to all this soon. When America is on its knees due to the economical attacks by almost every other country on the planet, and terrorist have caused havok with our government, and we are basically crippled because we are too weak willed to do what needs to be done now before it is too late...then my point will be made. I'm no prophet but history is all the crystal globe I need. Here is my prediction. I bet within 15 years America will be a third world nation. In fact my prediction is that by February 16, 2010 WW3 will begin openly and nuclear bombs will be raining down on USA cities. If we get up a little courage and strength of will we might make it drag out a full 15 to 20 years from now but based on my studies of WW1 and WW2 I think it will come down by Feb 16, 2010. I also predict Hillary will win the next presidential election. (Thought I would throw that in there while I'm at it. I hate the Clintons by the way) Churchhill made many predictions as well. He was ignored till it was almost too late. Every one of his predictions came true. I sure hope mine don't. |
|||
Beerio |
|||
|
Well if anyone still reads this forum I would like to say my 'predictions' seem to be coming true. I'd add here that Obama will likely be
assassinated and that will catapult Hilary into office.
2010 = WW3 |
|||